]> TEI TRC Core Subcommittee Notes for telephone conference of 3 February 1997 Dominic Dunlop Wendy Plotkin Encoded in TEI & converted to HTML TEI ASCII version of Minutes sent to TRC Core Committee members on 3 February 1997 TEI TRC Core Subcommittee Notes for telephone conference of 1997-02-03 TC Core M05 Dominic Dunlop 4 February 1997 Attendance: Present: David T. Barnard DB Lou Burnard LB (joined late) Dominic Dunlop DD Elli Mylonas EM Michael Sperberg-McQueen CMSMcQ Administrivia Item 0.1 Future meetings

Further conference calls will be scheduled for the Mondays of 1997-02-10 and 1997-02-17 at 14:00-15:00 UTC as usual. Note that the latter is Presidents' Day in the U.S. EM said that this might cause her problems, but did not object to the schedule. Item 0.2 Document archive

On-line copies of subcommittee documents may be found at http://www.uic.edu/orgs/tei/trc/core/. (Enter this URL directly in your browser: nothing links to it, so you cannot navigate to it from another page at the same site.) Plain-text, HTML and TEI P3 versions of most documents exist as .doc, .htm, and .tei files respectively. Item 0.3 Agenda for this meeting

The group agreed to review TEI TRC Core W02, Summary of status: Problems assigned to the TEI TRC Core Subcommittee, which had been distributed by CMSMcQ. Items listed as having no disposition were discussed first, followed by items flagged as requiring further discussion. Item 1 Items having no disposition

[Here, and in section 2, I have reinserted the item numbers which appeared in W01, but which were omitted in W02 -- DD] Item 2.12 Peter Flynn 1996-01-26, third point -- Error messages from sgmls

The group was of the opinion that this behaviour was due to user error.

ACTION: None

STATUS: Closed Item 2.14 Franz Wiering 1996-06-14 -- title pages, diagrams, musical notation

Disposition documented in EM's addendum to notes for meeting of 1996-12-23:

Part 1: ACTION: EDITORS: allow figure on title page

Part 2: ACTION: LB will contact Fantz Wiering for clarification.

Part 3: No action can be taken. In the case of isolated notes within text, it may be possible to use entities to indicate the different notes. However, TEI cannot possibly do better than SMDL, and is not in a position to devise new markup schemes for things like music in any thorough way. The FIGURE element has a notation valued attribute that would allow SMDL to be used in an SGML document. Item 2.15 Syd Bauman 1996-06-15 -- Typos

ACTION: EDITORS to amend default value of type attribute for stage to "mixed".

STATUS: Closed Item 2 Items requiring further discussion

The group discussed as many of these as possible in the time available, leaving the remainder to be discussed at subsequent meetings. Item 1.1.1 Carole E. Mah 1996-03-26 -- addSpan, delSpan as global inclusions

The group decided that the class of "asynchronous things" should be global inclusions. In addition to addSpan and delSpan, this class should include span. (anchor is already part of the class.)

ACTION: Add addSpan, delSpan and anchor to class %globincl.

STATUS: Closed Item 1.2.1 Hans Dybkjaer 1995-01-17 -- spelling of TEI.corpus.2/teiCorpus.2

On reflection, the group decided that there were no deeper issues to discuss.

ACTION: Use spelling teiCorpus.2

STATUS: Closed Item 1.2.1 Hans Dybkjaer 1995-01-17 -- spelling of person/participant, personGrp/participantGrp

Again, the group decided that there were no deeper issues to discuss.

ACTION: Use spellings participant and participantGrp

STATUS: Closed Item 1.3.1 Peter Robinson 1995-12-14 -- content of %inter

MSMcQ suggests in document W02 that %inter should contain no base-specific elements. The group agreed that this was a cleaner solution than noting that anything added to %inter should also be added to %common. LB pointed out that %common was hardly documented anyway, and would perhaps better be totally hidden. MSMcQ further proposed that %inter should function in the same way as %chunk in the core. (This would involve splitting %inter.) The proposal was accepted.

ACTION: Remove all base-specific elements from %inter; %inter should function in the same way as %chunk in the core; note in reprint of P3 that %common should not be extended; hide %common from view in a subsequent edition.

STATUS: Closed Item 1.3.2 Peter Robinson 1995-02-06 -- empty lists (was single-item lists)

The group agreed, LB dissenting, that empty lists should be allowed. Additionally, empty paragraphs -- useful as place-holders -- should be allowed. These changes would aid in the use of the TEI DTD of document production -- an application not originally envisaged, but which had turned out to be important. DD's earlier suggestion that a "tight/loose switch" on the DTD "would be nice" should not be acted on for the moment.

ACTION: Allow empty lists and paragraphs

STATUS: Closed Item 1.3.6 Nancy Ide 1995-07-29 -- class list membership (was s can't contain q)

In response to the original complaint, the group was of the opinion that s should be allowed as a parent of q (and also of quote). More contentious were the wider issues of how this should be achieved, and of how many similar but currently-disallowed nestings should be permitted. (For example, why can note not appear in some elements while being allowed in some children of those elements?)

MSMcQ had circulated document WO3, "Note on element classes". There was much discussion of the relative merits of over-generation (allowing most nestings, even those seeming at first sight to be meaningless, useless, or unlikely ever to be needed) and helpful prescription (allowing, on a case-by-case basis, nestings which are currently prohibited, but which have been proven by experience to be desirable). No decision was reached, but the following possible courses of action were proposed: a. Completely eliminate %phrase.seq in favour of %paraContent. (MSMcQ) b. Allow q, quote, note (and others t.b.d.?) as global inclusions in text; change %phrase.seq only so as to take account of this. (LB) c. Review decision criteria used in determining class membership of elements; repopulate classes in glow of resulting illumination. (LB)

In connection with the last option, the decision matrix is (or should be) a function of three binary variables: can the element occur between paragraphs?; can the element occur within paragraphs?; and is the element able to contain elements in class %inter? It is the last of these that is problematic.

Here's the matrix, and a cursory shot at populating it:

Not able to contain %inter Can occur neither between nor within paragraphs: (invalid) Can occur between but not within paragraphs: %chunk Can occur within but not between paragraphs: %paracontent Can occur between & within paragraphs: ?

Able to contain %inter Can occur neither between nor within paragraphs: (invalid) Can occur between but not within paragraphs: ? Can occur within but not between paragraphs: %specialPara Can occur between & within paragraphs: ? Item 3 Issues arising

(This corresponds to the section "Other Problems" in document W02.)

The following issues arose from discussion of other items, and should be considered at a subsequent meeting. Item 3.1 Nesting of teiCorpus.2

teiCorpus.2 [that is the spelling we decided upon, isn't it?] cannot currently nest, but there is a feeling that it should be allowed to, in order to provide for corpora of corpora. Item 3.2 Glossary lists

LB feels that the Recommendations should provide a standard method for handling this common requirement, either with specific elements, or by saying something like "use a list having a single p in each item". Dominic Dunlop